Comparing The Old and New Fox

 New Fox refers to the thousands of foxes imported into England from Europe each year from (at lest) the late 16th century on. Even though they,too, faced extinction events from hunting. The descendants are the "native fox" we see today.

Points to note:

1 The back of the ears are black

2  The muzzle is longer and pointed and has a clear black "tear stain"

3  The legs end in black "socks"

4  The underside is white but grey is also common these days -as are grey coats which indicate melanism.

5  The tail can end in a white or black tip and very light/white underside as well as dark grey can be found.

6  The coat varies from "cherry red", orange, a brownish and a darker "salt and pepper" colour (indicating melanism). White and black foxes are also noted showing a mix of descendents of imported foxes from around Europe.

7 When it comes to height I have recorded foxes standing at 13-14 inches (33.2 to 35.56 cms). Domestic cats have been measured at the same size and foxes, like pet cats, can very in size from small 11 inches (27.94 cms) or 9 inches (22.86).

Old Fox refers to the true fox of the British isles (England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland) that were stranded here after the sinking of Doggerland (estimates 8-12000 years ago). Pictorial evidence from history indicates that this type was also in Western Europe which makes logical sense.  There were three variations (not different species as argued back and forth in the 19th century):

The Mountain/Greyhound fox was the largest and seems to have filled the niche that coyotes in the United States and jackals elsewhere fill. 

The Hill or Mastiff fox which was of "muscular, robust" build but not quite as tall as the previous mentioned fox. It lived on hills and valleys.

The Common or Cur fox was the smallest and lived around/near human habitation where food would have been far more plentiful for them.

Whether these were the species Vulpes we do not know as that would require DNA work which as volunteers we cannot afford.

1  back of ears brown

2  No black "tear stain" but slight brownish colouring

3  Underside is dark and not white or grey

4  "socks" are brown in colour when found

5   coat is brown. We do know from taxidermy examples that Old type foxes could be found with white-yellowish white fur but there are no references to melanism. This fox was killed at a time of spring molting and there are some indications in text sources that mountain/greyhound foxes could look bulky and have much whiter fur during winter. Normally, as found by my colleague LM, the Old fox had a brindle look to its fur.

6  Tail was a uniform brown and occasionally white tips were reported but in other cases no tip colour.

7 The jaw seems shorter and quite distinctive -there is also something about the setting of the eyes and face shape that is noticeable.

Re Height: These mountain/greyhound foxes were large and this is always noted in old accounts.  It was stated by Colquhoun that this was a perfect example of a mountain fox. Others agree on this which shows why these were hunted  as they would also put up a fight at the end. An adult coyote taxidermy was placed in front of this fox but the coyote had to be raised up slightly for the photograph. The fox was still a head taller than the coyote!

New and Old Foxes side-by-side comparison

As Colquhoun had been killing foxes all of his life this one he chased and shot between 1834-1836 (the full account is given in The Red Paper 2022 Canids) was what he considered to be a perfect example of a mountain fox and others agreed on that matter. Here we see rather patchy fur but this is because the fox was killed during spring molt -Colquhoun notes removing his jacket as it was warm so the lighter colour could be a winter coat or there may have been variations, although it could just be bad recording by 'sportsmen'. Take for instance this 19th century fox killed in Chechia which resembles the Colquhoun fox and shows that it was an Old Western European fox surviving longer than they did in the UK. 

We have gathered enough documentary evidence as well as taxidermy examples, or photographs of taxidermy examples along with historical images to show that the Old foxes did exist but were just ignored as dogma was taught and passed along and we can pinpoint that dogma as having started around - / + 1900.   

We need to learn the lessons from the past and look at collections in the UK (museums say they have nothing pre 1900) and Europe so that we can document this lost species and also look at whether the Old fox had three distinct types in Western Europe or whether those were unique to the British Isles.

Above all else: we need DNA work.

(c)2025 Terry Hooper

Is It Cat Attacking Fox or Fox Attacking Cat?

 

I must admit that I am gradually losing my patience with people claiming a fox keeps attacking their cat and they end up at the vets all the time spending more money.

Do they have video footage of these attacks? You get two answers:

1) No

2) I do but calling me a liar I am not going to share it

2 above after politely asking. I've had three people who apparently just stood and watched as "foxes tore my cat apart". I, for one, would not stand by and watch my pet being attacked. Basically, it's a lie.

WHY can these people not tell you which vet is continually treating their cats after fox attacks? As one insisted their cat was seen by a vet I checked with the only two vets in the area in question. Never had any cat in attacked by a fox. "Who said it was a vet locally?" screeched the group moderator (a friend of the complainer).

In 50 years I have NEVER seen a fox attack a cat. In a wildlife survey in London back in the 1960s it was noted that foxes "ran like hell" when a cat came at them. I cannot find any historical or genuine modern account of a fox attacking and killing a cat.

In the last 20 years I have had occasion to rescue 5 different adult foxes that were cornered outside (by different cats)).

"Bella" the semi feral black cat that lived next door was a regular for attacking foxes and even twice had to be stopped as she jumped on foxes backs and went for a neck bite to kill it. I have on video two different cats that were stalking foxes.

Foxes can bite but a cat has 4 sets of claws and very nasty sharp teeth. Cats have all the attack advantages.

Cats fighting other cats -a fox was seen so it is to blame. A neighbour's dog has a go at a cat -a fox is to blame., This country has truly no interest in facts just blame it on...the badger...the fox...deer....otter. The biggest threat to pet cats are the owners at times so present veterinary reports or video footage or just shut up.

"The UK is currently one of the most nature-depleted countries on Earth"

 

"The UK is currently one of the most nature-depleted countries on Earth, with an average 19% decline in species abundance since 1970. Nearly 1 in 6 (16%) of the over 10,000 studied species are threatened with extinction, placing the country in the bottom 10% globally for biodiversity intactness"

http://stateofnature.org.uk/

Badger Road Deaths and True Fatality Figures

 

Over at the Fox Project Bristol (Face Book) I just noted how statistical analysis shows what the true number of road kill foxes might be.

How that is done is explained there but I thought that I would check a couple of the estimation sites and see what figure they come up based on the 61 known deaths in BBG area:

"If 61 badgers are reported killed, the true total is estimated to be between 122 and 183 deaths, as reported collisions often only represent one-third to one-half of actual incidents. The higher total accounts for unrecorded deaths, where animals crawl away to die, and the lack of comprehensive reporting."

Sadly, I have to say that the lower estimate is what I would expect BUT that is me just wanting a low overall figure.

It used to be estimated that 100,000 badgers died on UK roads every year. Then it went down to 60,000 and the new"guess without much work" is 50,000. I cannot see that as accurate. We lost over 300,000 badgers through the unscientific cull and no one knows how many killed illegally and that includes by "badgermen" hired by farmers on the quiet.In some areas badgers are extinct and none could be found to fill cull quotas and bTB free badgers were killed to fill quotas -I will hold back any comment.

I suspect that badger road deaths (genuine ones not staged 'road deaths' to sell to taxidermists) number in the low thousands by now. It shows just how out of touch and reliant on dogma and just repeating easily remembered figures national bodies are -and local groups repeat the same old figures.

Netting Kills...AGAIN

 

Sadly an avoidable death in this case. We have had a number of deaths because people cannot empty inflatable pools and cubs fall in and drown or because people are so lazy that they put up netting for football etc but will not consider wildlife and pull it up in the evenings. Another net caused death.

127 Friday 22 05 2026 Dead young male cub, caught in netting --- Moravian Road BS15 8ND I removed all the netting –rigor mortis had set in” (note. RM sets in 1-2 hours after death and peaks at 6 -12 hours)

Funding To Study Foxes -In The UK. Never

 

above: Fig. 1: Analyses of the relationship among aggressive, tame and conventional red fox populations.

From: Red fox genome assembly identifies genomic regions associated with tame and aggressive behaviours

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Someone asked, specifically, what financial figure would be needed to continuer just the fox study. 

To be honest I have never stated a specific amount because in the past I did try PayPal donations as well as Go Fund Me. but with no donations it was considered "inactive". There really is no interest in donating to wildlife studies because it is not considered important in a world where "what is in it for me? and celebrities rule the roost.

An example: "One of the most famous ridiculous GoFundMe campaigns that successfully raised a surprising amount of money was a $35,000 fundraiser started by a fan to "purchase" Foo Fighters frontman Dave Grohl, which managed to raise nearly $2,000 before the campaign creator stated that if they couldn't legally buy him, they would just spend all the money on beer. "

DNA testing the Old type foxes and wild cats is one big expense because of the species cross-checking needed:

Wild animal DNA testing in the UK typically costs between £60 and £400+ per sample. The exact price depends heavily on the species and the type of analysis being performed.

Specific testing costs and services vary based on your specific requirements:

Species Identification: Identifying a general biological species (e.g., mammals, birds, bats, insects) usually ranges from £60 to £130 plus VAT per sample.

eDNA (Environmental DNA): Testing soil, water, or other environmental samples to detect the presence of wildlife (like great crested newts) typically starts around £248.

Wildlife Forensics: For complex, accredited forensic analysis (such as parentage or specific individual identification for badgers or deer), fees range from £250 to £400 plus VAT per sample.

When I have enquired to laboratories the cost they range far higher than the amounts noted above.  For DNA testing what specimens we have £4-5,000?

Purchasing other taxidermies to preserve them for testing and correcting the record might be a similar amount. Once a specimen is gone it is lost forever and cannot contribute to our knowledge of Old Foxes or Old Wild cats. You can see that the combined amounts so far are at roughly £10,000 which, as far as I can see, are amounts that cannot be raised in the UK.

No UK museum, national, regional or local possesses any pre 1900 fox specimens and I tried every one over a five year period in the UK and Eire.  I am aware of a couple specimens in European museums but to find others would mean visiting them personally and tat means travel costs even at the  cheapest rates.

Covering everything as an ongoing study would be around the £20,000 mark and for the UK with a lack of interest in foxes that is unattainable. Working with UK universities?  There is no interest in academia in foxes unless it is to look at possible zoonotic diseases –there is money in that and the possibility of published papers and…more grants.  Identifying two lost UK species does not get these people excited.

Last month the blog had 10,140 visitors and if each donated £2/$2 that takes care of a lot of expenses from the study. 198,460 views of the blog for All Time –that £1/$1 idea sounds wonderful!😂

I have spent 50 years on the fox study and the one thing I have always come up against is the total lack of interest in the species and the history of foxes in the UK –unless there was an ulterior motive.  And before anyone asks themselves the question “I wonder how much of his own money he has spent?”…. thinking about that makes me faint!

When I read something like this online I have to take a deep breath and grit my teeth BECAUSE no Old fox types or knowledge of Old fox types was involved. “Vulpes vulpes has always been here” is a dogmatic statement based on poor research.

“UK red foxes are a mix of naturally established native lineages and European introductions. Genetic tracking and DNA mapping show that ancient British foxes migrated from central Europe before the land bridge (Doggerland) flooded around 8,200 years ago. However, the modern population has been extensively shaped by later additions.”

We REALLY Do Need DNA Testing

 It took many years to acquire specimens of what were the last vestiges of Old British fox and Old wild cat. The Colquhoun Mountain/Greyhound fox is seen as the classic example and my colleague LM managed to acquire it through sheer luck.   Colquhoun, at the time a very noted naturalist-'sportsman' described the fox as being a perfect example of the species. It was killed during the 1830s -a period during with the three Old type foxes were heading intro extinction.

Placed next to a full grown coyote taxidermy specimen the fox stands much taller -all accounts and records note its large size and wild nature -similar foxes were imported from Norway in the late 19th century when it became extinct.

When the land bridge between Britain and Europe (Doggerland) was flooded 8-10,000 years ago all UK species became island species and developed into such and the wolf would have developed into a distinct sub species and was noted for being large rather than attaining island "dwarf" status. 

The fox developed for the terrains it was to fit into. The Common or Cur fox stayed close to human habitation and was known as the smallest of the species. The Hill or Mastiff fox was much larger and heavily built for the environment it inhabited and rarely ventured down into valleys unless its hunt for food required it to.

The Mountain or Greyhound fox moved through mountains, swamps, forests and was known for its strength, stamina and that meant a lot for hunts who relished the chase and endurance as much as the kill. Mountain foxes existed and were hunted to extinction on the island of Ireland and British mountain foxes were later sent as "gifts" to Irish hunts. The foxes of Ireland, itself separated from Britain when its land bridge  sank would also have been a specific sub-species.

Looking at all of the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries archives by naturalists, 'sportsmen' and better known quadruped specialists the Old mountain fox filled the niche between wolves and the regular fox. A niche filled in the Americas by the coyote and in Europe and elsewhere the jackal.

There is little doubt that the Old British mountain fox was a fox -in the past before testing there were many often silly suggestions as to its origins- and that similar foxes existed in Western/Central Europe. The Red fox (Vulpes vulpes) gradually moving from the East into Europe along human migratory routes. Taxidermy specimens are rare to find due to age or lack of interest. No single museum in the United Kingdom or N. Ireland/Eire possess any specimens. I know because I communicated with each and every one of them and the oldest foxes they had were post 1900.  The Extinct Fox and Wild Cat Museum (EFWCM) has the largest collection including two foxes from the noted French naturalist Sarrazin -which may be either the first examples of old North American fox or specimens of Old European fox.  

Similarly, in the 1830s, Colquhoun also shot what are thought to have been the last pair of Old wild cats from Scotland before the European wild cat was introduced for hunting and then interbred with feral domestic cats. The Old wild cats were known in  as "The English Tiger" but after extinction that title moved north to be adopted for "the Highland Tiger" of Scotland. 

These cats were much bigger than the wild cats of today, were sandy/yellowish and had "tiger stripes" and were so powerful that hunters attached metal spiked leather collars to their hounds as hounds could be easily killed by the cats.  Human fatalities were also known as the cats gave no quarter when bordered or wounded.

The Colquhoun cats are probably the last of the genetic line and, again, there seems to be evidence that such cats existed in Western Europe (we know of a specimen at a museum in Ireland that looks to be Felis lybica in origin and was probably introduced there during the Iron Age).

Without going into overlong hypothesis the Old wild cat would be a distinct species that was killed off and later replaced by what we know as the European wild cat of today.  This makes sense since Ireland, Britain and Europe were once joined and animals roamed freely with no obstacles in their way.

What we do not have, because of the lack of museum specimens (there is an 1845 British fox in a Netherlands museum)  is any DNA test results because of that. DNA results could well re-write British, Irish and European natural history on these two species.

No labs seem interested in testing samples and such tests are beyond any finances we have.